Making Sure Our Kids are Okay with Jordan Posamentier
September 20, 2022
Making Sure Our Kids are Okay with Jordan Posamentier

Everyone should be working to ensure our kids are okay; it’s not the sole responsibility of parents or teachers or mental health professionals. If we want to make sure our kids are ready to be tomorrow’s leaders, making sure our kids are okay needs to be a collective responsibility and priority.

This week on the podcast, I’m talking to Jordan Posamentier of the Committee for Children, an organization that helps support youth mental health and wellbeing through policy and advocacy for change.

In this episode, we talk about the challenge of supporting children’s mental health, how parents and community members can help, and why the onus isn’t just on mental health providers.

I hope you’ll tune in and take the action that Jordan suggests toward the end of the episode. We’re all in this together!

About Jordan Posamentier, Esq.:

Jordan Posamentier, Esq., is the Vice President of Policy & Advocacy at Committee for Children, an over-forty-year-old non-profit missioned to foster the safety and well-being of children through social-emotional learning and development. Previously, Jordan was Deputy Policy Director at the University of Washington’s Center on Reinventing Public Education, Director of Legislative Analysis at StudentsFirst, Legislative Counsel to the California Judges Association, and a teacher in New York City public schools. Jordan earned his JD from the University of Houston, MS in education from Queens College within the City University of New York, and BA in human ecology from College of the Atlantic in Maine. He lives in Shoreline, Washington. Connect with him on LinkedIn and follow him on Twitter.

Jump in the Conversation:

[1:40] – Jordan’s genesis story in advocacy for change
[3:15] – What does well-being look like? What are we aspiring to?
[4:53] – Focusing on youth mental well being
[6:29] – Misfire in mental health
[8:14] – How the pandemic changed Committee for Children’s work
[12:28] – Committee for Children national campaign
[13:43] – How to support the campaign
[14:40] – Connecting the right way with the right people
[16:18] – What the day in a life of a policymaker looks like
[17:42] – Roadblocks for policy
[19:07] – Other steps changemakers can take
[22:12] – Turbo Time
[23:56] – What people should know about children’s wellbeing
[25:56] – Jordan’s Magic Wand
[27:26] – Maureen’s takeaways

Links & Resources

 

Transcript:

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 0:03
Hello fellow parents and educators. Thank you for joining me at Education Evolution, where we are disrupting the status quo in today’s learning models. We talk about present day education, what’s broken, who’s fixing it, and how. I’m Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy, your host and founder of education evolution, micro school coalition, and co founder of active, I consult and train with schools and leaders who are fiercely committed to changing the narrative, reimagining the education landscape, and creating learning that serves all children and prepares them to thrive. If you are new, welcome to the podcast. Please subscribe on our website to get it delivered to your inbox weekly. If you’ve been around a while, have you left a review?

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 1:08
Hi, Jordan, it is so good to have you as our guest on Education Evolution today. Thank you so much for having me. And listeners. today I’m chatting with Jordan Posamentier of Committee for Children. This is an established nonprofit mission to foster the safety and well being of children through social emotional learning and development from Classroom Teacher through various advocacy roles. Jordan is committee for children’s Vice President of Policy and Advocacy. So Jordan, I always like to start with that Genesis story. What motivated your journey of advocacy for school change?

Jordan Posamentier 1:48
I got my start Maureen, as a New York City public school teacher. And that was a, a formative experience for me, that has inspired my career trajectory ever since. After I finished my work as a teacher, I went to law school, became a lawyer practiced healthcare litigation in California for a little while. But I’ve always had an interest in policy work, which is different from litigation. And in that policy work, when I thought I was just going to do work with kids pro bono, I found myself drawn back into doing it professionally full time. I did this through different education, nonprofits who have an interest in advancing legislative legislation, different outfits that work on research and in spirit of policy. And over time, making a longer story a little shorter. I found myself over Committee for Children, which brings a lot of my background into one locale. It’s it’s the teacher hat. It’s the lawyer at it’s the advocacy hat. It’s the research, it’s the policy, it’s the whole mcgillis

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 2:54
that is wonderful. And I find that that richness from multiple aspects is such an asset when we’re dealing with something as complex as as well being and, and speaking about well being, Committee for Children focuses on this child well being help us unpack, ideally, what does wellbeing look like? What are we aspiring to?

Jordan Posamentier 3:17
Yeah, there’s, let’s break it down at a table, there’s there’s a floor, we want to help kids be safe. And that means protecting them from any numbers of harm, you know, committees for children got it start in child protection, particularly child sexual abuse prevention, how do we keep kids safe from this kind of abuse? That’s that’s one dimension of it, the protection against that kind of, but there’s also the flip side of it. How do we promote the conditions, the factors, the skills that we’re tend to well being? How do we reach that North Star, there’s no ceiling to it. It’s just an ever increasing goal for us to try to reach. And that offers any number of pathways. The one Committee for Children works on predominantly is skill building. But there are different ways to set those conditions. And they run the gamut, right? There’s no shortage of different ways to help kids feel safe and well. And we contribute to that space. And any number of other organizations contribute to in which we like to serve in partnership.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 4:19
I like that I like the basic that our kids have to be safe and protected. And that aspirational North Star and how we can be moving and never arriving at that ideal well being. So I know many of us who work with youth are very concerned about the drastic mental health situation. Anxiety, depression, self harm. As an individual I am it wakes me up at night. It’s it keeps me up at night. It’s just so big. What is Committee for Children focusing on regarding youth mental well being?

Jordan Posamentier 4:55
Yeah, we’ve just actually released some material to the public about the need to help kids feel more than just okay. I think you and I probably share a similar concern, we both have kids, minus eight, she’s just back in school as of late. But you know, the pandemic took a toll she spends, she has spent most of her school life at home, rather than in a school building. And that leads to any number of social challenges, emotional challenges, academic challenges. And I think her story is not unique. I think we’re experiencing this as a country. We already were prior to the pandemic, having challenges with kids can their emotional states mental states, and now it’s kind of exacerbated, so that we can’t afford not to pay attention to this. And we can’t afford just to have kids get to that okay spot, we really need kids thriving, to be future ready to be happy with where they are and where they’re going. And again, like Committee for Children fills one space in this much broader ecosystem, that there’s so many things that we can do together, we think schools can do these things families can do their things that your hospital down the street your local library can do. Everyone has a role to play, who enters the lives of children

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 6:14
agreed. And that adage that it takes a village, it really does take all of us and it’s not a teachers make this work a parents make this work. We all need to be that wraparound support for every youth.

Jordan Posamentier 6:29
There’s a misfire that’s going on right now in response to the mental health challenges affecting us, which is to place the onus on a particular group of grownups to lead and tackle the challenge. That group is the group of mental health professionals that have been working very hard to serve these needs, particularly with kids who are showing signs of risk, behavioral challenges, they’re already receiving diagnoses around things like anxiety, depression, the reason it’s not going to work well, by placing that onus exclusively on them, because they’re not enough of them. First and foremost, they are already experiencing fatigue, exhaustion, burnout, even somewhat turnover, they cannot be expected through small group or one on one intervention to solve what is a countrywide challenge that affects more than just the particular students, they happen to have the privilege to see. And so we have to think much more broadly than that as a mental health challenge for mental health professionals to solve. There are non medical professionals who can do non medical things right now to help build skills with kids, so that they can rise to these challenges.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 7:39
I absolutely agree. I know Rita Pearson’s TED Talk, every child deserves a champion. It might be the school custodian, the soccer coach, the youth minister, all of us have a role in connecting and supporting each youth. And right somebody that sees a student an hour a week or a Monday, that is just ludicrous. And nobody is exempt from being responsible for making sure our youth are supported and raised. Well. I’m curious, how is the pandemic, we know how it’s impacting our kids? How has it impacted your work? Have you guys had to pivot back up regroup?

Jordan Posamentier 8:21
Yes, yes, yes. I don’t know any organization that hasn’t had to make some significant changes to accommodate the moment, we move very much towards the digital environment so that we can continue, we could continue to serve communities who were not able to learn in person in school, or that they were in a hybrid where both learning environment so there was there was that and that was a big lift. In policy and advocacy, different issues rose to the fore legislatures were very concerned with any number of things around safety. And how do we help keep kids connected to school to keep fostering those relationships between their peers, grownups that work with them normally at the buildings, there’s so many things, so many things happened. And we’re not done yet. I know that they’re endemic, it’s more manageable place than it was three years ago. But we’re where we don’t have our sea legs. This is still quite a challenge every day. And I know educators are experiencing this intensely right now.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 9:23
Absolutely. I was just on a call with some educational innovators from around the US this morning. And there’s also the concern that people are just going back to previous habits and routines kind of like nothing’s changed and hey, it’s the fourth day of school so we should be on this chapter. And, and that’s alarming because so much has changed.

Jordan Posamentier 9:47
It’s it’s difficult. This works like a rubber band, you can’t break the rubber band and expect things to tie together. And if you snap it back too tight, you’re not going to hold on to the things you need. Either it’s or be able to stretch to those to places, it’s hard to ask an exhausted workforce, and families that are really tired of it, to come back and do something completely different. And at the same time, we know that for a lot of families and a lot of schools, what was going on wasn’t serving them with excellence, or with the expectations that they had all this same family. So how do you how do you balance that? Like, what’s the Goldilocks zone, and I can tell you, what, whatever that balance is, it still stands that social lives and emotional lives are part of child development, and are integral to learning. And learning Well, as you don’t tend to those no matter where that rubber band snaps, you’re gonna miss an important part of that learning equation.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 10:45
Agreed, agreed. And we know Neuroscience tells us if kids don’t feel safe, if they don’t feel belonging, we’re not getting that frontal lobe and really maximizing learning. It’s, it’s not a plus, or like, Oh, if we have time we’ll add on. It’s not a luxury. It’s foundational and how we function as humans.

Jordan Posamentier 11:05
Yeah, I really tried to ground this in examples, just like folks, picture a tutor just had a fight in the hallway, who is now coming into their algebra class, and is asked to take the test? Do you really think they’re gonna be focused, eager, ready to go? Or they’re gonna knock it out of the park? Or do they need some sort of strategy to regulate, and process and then focus, engage and nail that naptime? I think we all kind of know what the better side of that atom is going to be. And I can give you any other number of examples, you know, it’s not just what’s going on in the hallways, it’s, it’s what’s going on in the playground, it’s it’s what happened to the family in the morning, you know, I, schools back the routines knew. And for me just like processing, getting my kid, instead of just reading out the door. There’s a lot of emotional management that comes into the play before we even leave the front door to hit the school.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 12:01
There is yes, this is a complex situation. And we need to remember that and remember, we’re dealing with a whole human and not just a math prepped brain ready to take that algebra test.

Jordan Posamentier 12:15
Yeah, good luck getting my daughter’s math brain to get her finished brushing her teeth on time. Like that’s, that’s a field of study that we need to focus on in that moment.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 12:24
Right. So you have just launched ad national campaign. Talk to us about that.

Jordan Posamentier 12:33
Yes. So I mentioned earlier that these two dimensions all kids safe, and well, is the name of the campaign. And this is to really focus on that traditional layer of primary prevention of helping kids build skills, before they start to experience signs of distress risk disrupts dysregulation that warrants more intense intervention to those more intense interventions along a continuum of supports absolutely needed. Mental health professionals definitely deserve to be part of this equation. Like we said, we can’t do it alone. So if you build that foundational layer of skill building, to help kids get good communication skills, problem solving, emotional management, regulation, coping, then you’ll be far better equipped as a population to attend to those more intense needs. It is a foundation that is getting ignored across state legislatures across Congress. It needs our attention right now. Now, especially following the pandemic, but also just we know that this is important for our kids to be the next generation of leaders. It is.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 13:41
So how do we the listeners, support your campaign?

Jordan Posamentier 13:47
There are any number of ways that you can do this. So there already has been a Twitter storm, as you call it. Brewing around the internet, in which anyone can still participate. It’s not hard to search us and and find us on Twitter. There are opportunities to join Committee for Children, either as an organization or as an individual. And joining means you’ll get opportunities to take action at key moments, both at state levels and nationally, to lift your voice at key times during legislation so that you can tell your story as to why these life skill building interventions matter to you, your family community, and why your lawmaker needs to attend to it. Right now, this session.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 14:38
Jordan, that is so huge, because there’s so many times I’ve wanted to do something. I don’t know what I’ve reached out to State Board of Education and legislators and they’ve kind of spun me I haven’t had the right questions or the right contacts, but I would gladly be a part of something that somebody says Oh, you have to show up at all these meetings and know the people know And it’s like, I don’t even know, which is this the school board locally is the state is, I don’t even know where to start. And so you’re saying you could help connect us at key times, so that we can have some impact.

Jordan Posamentier 15:12
That’s right. I think this can be really overwhelming. If you’re not used to interfacing with policymakers, we tried to make it as easy as possible, that when you just type in your information, the program we have knows who your lawmakers are, we often pre fabricate a letter, which you then tailor to your own priorities and interests. And then you press enter, you don’t even have to tailor it, you can just say I like what they say go off, it goes to the inbox of your lawmakers. And usually you’re gonna get a canned response or something a little bit more personalized, but it’s a volumes game. You know, if we all say the same thing, at the same time, we’re we’re much more likely to get noticed, and to change their behavior to really attend to this issue as they go through their policymaking session.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 15:57
I like it, I bet I can do that. This is great. And we’re gonna have all of your contact information in the show notes so that all of our listeners can find it as well. Thank you. That’s great. So Jordan, this isn’t my world. I’m curious. What does your day look like as a policymaker?

Jordan Posamentier 16:18
It’s a look at IC o specs. Well, it’s you know, everybody’s still remote. I’d love to do more in person work. But I find myself on Zoom calls pretty regularly with a lot of coalition. So we do a lot of coalition work. That’s groups and groups meeting together to figure out how we’re going to coordinate our different policy endeavors. That’s, that takes up the bulk. We asked to talk to lawmakers, government, government affairs representatives, to figure out where their priorities lie, how we can intersect with them. A lot of strategy planning on how do we make the most of this legislative session. I talked with other fields, friends, from school administrators, to research experts to figure out like, what did they need from us? Do they need help with messaging? Do they need the latest and greatest research? Do they need some practitioner feedback on implementation? You know, the do’s and don’ts of actually moving through the course of the learning day with social and emotional dimensions involved? Yeah. So it’s, it’s, it’s a lot of problem solving. And it’s, it’s kind of back to back.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 17:22
Wow, it sounds intense. But it also sounds like there’s enough variety that would be continued to be really interesting.

Jordan Posamentier 17:31
Oh, no one can say this is boring. We’re definitely off the boring wagon.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 17:36
So what have been some of the biggest struggles or roadblocks for Committee for Children?

Jordan Posamentier 17:42
Oh, yes. We’re not unique in that the pandemic was definitely a struggle for all of us. You know, we, we were working most of us in person in one building, and had done for years before I showed up. And then we were all of course, displaced. So overnight, I mean, literally, I remember sitting March when it was 2020. And we got this news. And I was like, Okay, I’m not gonna see my desk, or I thought it was two weeks, it turned into more like, two years. Yes. Yeah. So that’s done. And I think that was rough for all of us. We just had to figure out a lot of new ways to work in a very short amount of time. And then not only that, we had to serve our, our communities in that process in the same sort of situation like, Okay, how do we, how do we help provide programmatic solutions, to provide, you know, public awareness campaigns in this very different context? And Holy smokes, just a lot of creative thinking, you know, I’m sure a lot of late nights are staff, trying to figure out how to do well by our mission, just not easy. And, and I think we’re still there. Like I said before, we’re getting better at it. We’re not through it, and then even sure if there’s a through right now, but I would just put that as the ongoing challenge.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 19:01
So what are a few steps that others can take beyond signing up to get notified and be involved? How can we be supporting your drive for increased safety and wellbeing for our children?

Jordan Posamentier 19:14
Yes, so if it’s all kids safe, and well, this is not your, your fit is not the favorite thing you want to do. There are a lot of other ways to make it for children makes opportunities available. If you are a parent, and you are concerned about the social and emotional work with your child at school, and want to make sure that it’s getting into classrooms in a really smart way. Have a conversation with teacher with principal and just ask the basic that’s so important. Just ask the basic question. What are you doing to attend to my child’s social and emotional well being as we continue to work on academic recovery, re socialization and acclamation to the school environment? What are you doing to help my kid socially Really, and emotionally, they talk to the teacher could talk to the principal, if you’re feeling very ambitious, you could always shoot a letter off to your local Head of School or superintendent, school board, you’ll find when you have a targeted communication, you’ll get a response. I mean, you still want to be polite, I always tell people, when you’re, when you’re doing this kind of I call it advocacy, you can just call it having a conversation, you still want to be accurate, you still want to be brief, because your time is valuable. And you want to be courteous. Don’t lose the courtesy part, I wouldn’t like to think you’re in relationship with the grown ups in the school building to which you send your kids, that’s for families. If you’re a community member who might not have kids in school, and you’re still interested in this, of course, like I said, you can always sign up with us, you get your pre populated messages sent to your lawmaker. But there’s any number of steps you can take on your oath to message, your leadership and your leadership. Like there’s so many people who represent you. In fact, your state level legislators, you’ve got your federal legislators, you’ve got your boards event, you’ve got your mayor, or your your local city council. I mean, there’s a lot of democracy going on. If you want to talk to someone, I’ll give you 17 names. I mean, we can do that for you. But you know, you got to pick and choose. And again, it just starts with that simple question. And with a question can come and answer, especially if you’re a community member, just saying, you know, I think this stuff really matters. You know, I know we all have had it for a long time in schools in different ways. And I think we just really can’t afford not to pay attention to it. We’ve gotten really better at a tool for the last three or four decades of study on this subject. Let’s apply with better knowledge we know and not leave it on the sidelines. last opportunity.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 21:48
Absolutely. These are super specific and easy steps. This isn’t asking somebody to quit their job and join some big.

Jordan Posamentier 21:59
It’s just an email. You’re really good at that. I know, listener, you have done email before. You can do this, as well. Indeed. I liked Jordan

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 22:12
to pivot before we ended the interview and just get to know about the person behind the topic. So I have a few turbo time questions for you if you are game.

Jordan Posamentier 22:22
Okay, let’s go.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 22:24
What are your

Jordan Posamentier 22:24
awesome,

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 22:25
what’s the last book you read?

Jordan Posamentier 22:27
It was called the chalice and the blade was for a book club. It’s esoteric, flexible, 1980s. It was marketed as being like, the next Darwin. I cannot recommend it as the next Darwin but it was interesting as an artifact of history.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 22:42
Okay, how about two inspirational folks or characters that you would love to meet?

Jordan Posamentier 22:51
Sure. The, let’s say, I’m fine to philosophy. There happened to be a few living philosopher, Stila, Atlanta petard and Peter Singer are both very impressive. I said I agree with their work, but they’re very compelling. they exude kindness. And they’re very thoughtful, lovely to have a conversation with them.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 23:10
Exude kindness. Ah, that just sounds I know. Don’t you want to have dinner with those people? That sounds as How about a TED Talk that inspires you?

Jordan Posamentier 23:23
Oh, go back to Ellen, the baton. You just gave one recently, and I’m not gonna get the name. Right. So you’re just gonna have to Google it. Again, he just starts off, you’ll get it really quick. He’s talking about kindness and how we should think about adults sometimes. Because I could ramble on about it. It’s just very compelling. Sometimes, you know, it’s, it’s very much how a person conducts themselves less than the content of their message. And you’re just like, I can trust this guy. Yes. Yeah. So that was that TED Talk? Very

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 23:53
like it. What’s the biggest thing you wish folks knew about children’s well being and the role of schools?

Jordan Posamentier 24:01
Yeah, how do I, I’m gonna, let’s see, the nice way to say the children’s well being is kids are not just tiny grownups, their brains are actually quite different from ours. And they’re not total fools. I mean, you you can have, it’s funny, you can have an adult conversation, that kind of a kind with a kid, but you have to also know they are not just tiny grownups. That is that is a trick, which if you can, and I’m constantly forgetting it, or she can digest that. You will do a better job at helping kids. Find that wellness. Yes.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 24:35
How about a pet peeve of yours?

Jordan Posamentier 24:38
Yeah. Go to the supermarket. walk down the aisle when the cart in front of you is turned diagonally. Oh, just drive me to Harrods. Special unawareness insert. Yeah, it happens in traffic. It happens getting on the bus. That how to drive Jordan bananas in one easy step. Turn the cart diagonally. Yeah, that’s How you doing? Oh dear.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 25:04
How about a passion that you bring to wellbeing for all children? Schumer? Gotta have a sense of here with Dr. Jordan nuts it’s one step. You got you got and something about you most folks don’t know.

Jordan Posamentier 25:21
I have. Let’s see what’s something you don’t know that a lot you don’t tell me Bernie. Okay, the fun trivia question would be I have American citizenship, but I also have Austrian citizenship which I acquired relatively recently. So there,

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 25:39
that’s no, love it. Yay.

Jordan Posamentier 25:43
Way to honor my grandparents.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 25:45
And Austrian Christmas markets are a very fond memory of mine in Vienna, so I can picture Austria and like, good for you. Cool. So I’d like to close with a magic wand moment. So if we handed you, Jordan, a magic one, what would you wish for? as either a national or global consciousness when it comes to youth and well being?

Jordan Posamentier 26:11
That is a How much is that one custom? Where can I find what this is going to sound cat is? Because it’s never just one thing. It’s it’s multifaceted. And no one really needs to scoop the ocean. It just can’t be dropped by drop. I think that’s the hard part. Can we all? I don’t know how to say it was about sounding cheesy. Can we all jump at the same time? Can we all just gently move forward together with this as is the priority with let’s child wellbeing as the priority? That’s my one. And it’s really easy to to mess that up? Yes, it is.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 26:53
But boy, does that make sense? And it’s one of those examples that is simple. And not easy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jordan, thank you. Thank you for being our guest. And for all of the work you’re doing to get policies in place and practices that really honor our kids and keep them safe and help them be more than just okay.

Jordan Posamentier 27:17
Thank you for having me

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 27:27
our children’s safety and well being is a vital importance. I’m so glad I found Committee for Children. It’s right here in Seattle where I am. I like the idea that it’s not enough for us to just have students feel okay. We want them to thrive, know their strengths and passions and be a future ready force for good. This takes them feeling safe and good about themselves. Our school structure was set up to provide the three R’s in a lockstep manner over 100 years ago. If that were enough to make every student future ready, we wouldn’t have lost students floundering are beset with mental health challenges. We know the human brain is much more complex, we must make sure that we are providing students with resources and strategies for their own wellness. And this is mandated right along with core academic subjects. This is not an either or proposition. I know some purists believe school is just supposed to provide the academics. But bless the people that have pushed the line and also added transportation to get our children to and from school and breakfast for those kids who don’t get to eat at home. And before and after school care for families who can’t build their source of income around the school schedule. We need those same kind of thinkers to say that our schools also need to provide for each child’s mental health. All kids safe and well. Since there is nothing more important than our children’s well being. This should be the one rallying point that we can all agree upon. Jordans magic wand that we all need to be scooped up and working together. Moving this cause forward was powerful. I intend to sign up immediately to add my voice to this work. I encourage each of you to do the same. Thank you for being a part of the education evolution.

Maureen O’Shaughnessy 29:52
I know how challenging it is to make changes inside your own school or community. I’ve spent years working with schools around The World on creating learner centered programs. And it always struck me how much schools were able to get done with the right tools and guidance. If you’re ready to make changes like this in your own school, let’s talk and put together an action plan. Visit education evolution.org backslash consult for a free 15 minute call. And let’s see if we’re a good fit for more work together. Thanks again for listening. To support the education evolution. Subscribe so it lands in your podcast app and gets out to more decision makers. Then rate and review it. For more information in shownotes go to educationevolution.org. education evolution listeners, you are the ones to ensure we create classrooms where each student is seen, heard, valued and thriving. We are in this together and we need you. Let’s go out and reach every student today. Thank you for listening, signing off. I am Maureen O’Shaughnessy, your partner in boldly reimagining education.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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